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> Larger Static Images Thru Handwriting, Is it possible? Will it be Implemented?
EaglesNestOne
post Jun 27 2007, 05:34 AM
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Hey all I haven't been on for a while now but I came back to see if there was any suggestions.

Anyway my suggestion is: is there a way that static (still) images can be converted into the handwriting thing in a conversation window. This will save users the trouble of downloading pictures and it may just stop people wanting "oversized emmotions" (for still images anyway) back.


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Aardvark
post Jun 27 2007, 06:03 AM
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What sort of images? Like emoticons and stuff like that?


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EaglesNestOne
post Jun 27 2007, 06:14 AM
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No more for things like normal .jpeg's .png's .jpg s .gif's (still) but it may be helpful for emmotions as well but its up to developers even if this is implemented.


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Aardvark
post Jun 28 2007, 05:13 AM
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Yeah that's what I meant. I guess I should've said "emoticons from a saved FILE" heh heh...yeah good idea though, but somehow I think even if it is implemented, people will still find some reason to complain about the lack of said feature which is NOT coming back. tongue.gif


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Three6Mafia
post Jun 28 2007, 04:16 PM
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@Aardvark: I think ENO is more asking whether it is possible to say, 'copy' an image, and be able to paste it into the 'Edit Form' provided for the Handwriting feature.
Inserting an image from file would require a choice such as an 'Insert Image from File' Button and the likes.

Which ever way you choose to send the image, it would still require the recipient having to download the image to his/her PC to view. 'File Transfers' or 'Share Folders' would still be the better way to go, if you are wanting the recipient to have a copy of the image.
Given that the recipient is unable to locate the (Hand-Written) image in temporary files, they still have to right click and 'Save As'. Thus Having a multiple copy of the image.
However, if you are just pasting an image directly from the 'Web, it could save the hassles of having to import the image into an 'editing program' and saving it, to then place it in a file transfer, etc.

Suppose it's just an equation of stacking up the Pro's to the Con's

Regards,
Aaron.

This post has been edited by Three6Mafia: Jun 28 2007, 04:17 PM


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Keikonium
post Jun 28 2007, 07:47 PM
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As far as I know, this isn't possible due to the way the ink feature works.

It uses "Windows Journal" or whatever its called, and only supports vector graphics (not bitmaps like .jpg, .bmp, .png etc). If it were possible to 'copy' an image into the ink window and send it, the picture would look horrible because it would only use the colors that "Windows Journal" can use.

I just don't think its possible, but maybe I am wrong.
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TheSteve
post Jun 29 2007, 01:05 AM
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It in theory would be possible, but would be far more work than it's worth. Ink can support any color (not just the ones messenger lets you input), but as Ink is a vector graphic, that would require taking the image and converting it to a drawing instead of a picture.

It's a nice idea (not a new one however), but I don't see it happening in the near future if at all.
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EaglesNestOne
post Jul 3 2007, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE(Three6Mafia @ Jun 29 2007, 02:16 AM) *

@Aardvark: I think ENO is more asking whether it is possible to say, 'copy' an image, and be able to paste it into the 'Edit Form' provided for the Handwriting feature.
Inserting an image from file would require a choice such as an 'Insert Image from File' Button and the likes.

Which ever way you choose to send the image, it would still require the recipient having to download the image to his/her PC to view. 'File Transfers' or 'Share Folders' would still be the better way to go, if you are wanting the recipient to have a copy of the image.
Given that the recipient is unable to locate the (Hand-Written) image in temporary files, they still have to right click and 'Save As'. Thus Having a multiple copy of the image.
However, if you are just pasting an image directly from the 'Web, it could save the hassles of having to import the image into an 'editing program' and saving it, to then place it in a file transfer, etc.

Suppose it's just an equation of stacking up the Pro's to the Con's

Regards,
Aaron.


The whole point of this feature the way I see it is that people would be able to view an image before (or without) downloading it. Say you need to send someone a screenshot of an error you may have gotten but you both have slow internet/ dial up/ no download time. Sure it may take a while to load but viewing it would be WAY faster (and easier) then downloading it.


@ TheSteve

But there are ways to convert images like Jpeg to png even through Microsoft Paint. So it would be possible for somebody to make a script or something to convert to a vector drawing (this kind of software may exist somewhere on the internet already). So it may become possible closer in time than you think.

This post has been edited by EaglesNestOne: Jul 3 2007, 01:00 AM


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Aardvark
post Jul 3 2007, 02:08 AM
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So basically this is just the preview of when you send a file, except the preview is a bit bigger than the "large" size. So how about if the feature was just to give an option for a larger "preview pictures before transfer" option. If you did THAT as the feature instead of the handwriting thing, I would think it would be a lot more possible.


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TheSteve
post Jul 3 2007, 03:32 AM
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QUOTE(EaglesNestOne @ Jul 3 2007, 09:49 AM) *

@ TheSteve

But there are ways to convert images like Jpeg to png even through Microsoft Paint. So it would be possible for somebody to make a script or something to convert to a vector drawing (this kind of software may exist somewhere on the internet already). So it may become possible closer in time than you think.

JPEG and PNG are both pixel based image formats. Ink however stored in terms of strokes, widths and colors.
In order to convert a normal pixel based image in to a stroke based image, you'd need simulate strokes for pixels. If you wanted the same quality of image as the original, it would end up being MUCH bigger than the original was.
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EaglesNestOne
post Jul 3 2007, 11:32 PM
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@ Aardvark
Yes, this would be very handy in that respect as well but I think you have overlooked something with that idea: having the image bigger when sending would not work for the other user (unless there is a handwritten image before the usual preview) because they may not have stuffplug. This will lead to one of the problems which Oversized emmotions / display pictures came across.

@ TheSteve
Yes, I know but what I am going on about is that images may be converted easily with the correct software yes? I have seen a few programs which convert image to stroke but I forgot what it was called because on account of I saw it quite a while ago.


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TheSteve
post Jul 4 2007, 03:42 AM
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QUOTE(EaglesNestOne @ Jul 4 2007, 08:32 AM) *
@ TheSteve
Yes, I know but what I am going on about is that images may be converted easily with the correct software yes? I have seen a few programs which convert image to stroke but I forgot what it was called because on account of I saw it quite a while ago.

I never said it was impossible I said it wasn't worth the effort required to do it. If there is a program floating around that is capable of doing such a thing, I highly doubt their source code is going to be available to use in a project such as stuffplug.
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Aardvark
post Jul 4 2007, 04:14 AM
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@ ENO

Nononono, the person sending the image, regardless whether they have stuffplug or not, sends the image. The recipient of the image, if they don't have stuffplug, have an option of it being viewed not at all, medium or large. If the recipient has stuffplug installed however, then the image will be viewed at the "extra large" size, if the option is turned on.

The image always sends at the same size. It's how the recipient chooses to view it that determines how big it is (I'm pretty sure thats how the feature works with WLM)


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EaglesNestOne
post Jul 6 2007, 06:25 AM
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@ TheSteve

Ya I suppose your right but if this software were open source and it could be coded into stuffplug (with permission) would you do it?

@ Aardvark
Yes but if there is a handwritten image before the normal preview (generated by WLM) only the sender would need stuffplug.


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Aardvark
post Jul 6 2007, 08:53 AM
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Ooo I see what you want here. I'm talking about the person receiving the picture having StuffPlug you're talking about the person sending the picture having StuffPlug. While it would probably be more effective if the "picture enlargement" was done with the person sending the picture, why not add both features then. That way you're safe receiving the large picture either way.


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Three6Mafia
post Jul 6 2007, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE(EaglesNestOne @ Jul 3 2007, 10:49 AM) *

The whole point of this feature the way I see it is that people would be able to view an image before (or without) downloading it. Say you need to send someone a screenshot of an error you may have gotten but you both have slow internet/ dial up/ no download time. Sure it may take a while to load but viewing it would be WAY faster (and easier) then downloading it.

Excuse the inconvenient delay of response.
@ENO: It needs to be addressed: The Image WILL be downloaded by the recipient. Be it, a Thumbnail, Handwriting or Display picture, etc. etc. which is why I left other suggestions of file transferrel.
Surprisingly, I have nothing more to add to this conversation, all else relevant has been addressed by TheSteve.


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EaglesNestOne
post Jul 11 2007, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE(Three6Mafia @ Jul 6 2007, 11:34 PM) *

Excuse the inconvenient delay of response.
@ENO: It needs to be addressed: The Image WILL be downloaded by the recipient. Be it, a Thumbnail, Handwriting or Display picture, etc. etc. which is why I left other suggestions of file transferrel.
Surprisingly, I have nothing more to add to this conversation, all else relevant has been addressed by TheSteve.


Yes, I know and I am addressing other relevant facts and questions positive towards the topic (as in debates, court-meetings etc.). Also I'm not sure whether I'm correct or not (properly not) but are vector drawings smaller then normal "Pixel" drawings? If so this means they may load faster than normal drawings.

It just reoccurred to me that it is possible to right click on a sent handwritten image and press copy. You can then 'paste' into Microsoft paint. Could this be reverseable or does the image convert into a pixel image when it is sent?


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Matti
post Jul 12 2007, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE(EaglesNestOne @ Jul 11 2007, 09:57 AM) *

It just reoccurred to me that it is possible to right click on a sent handwritten image and press copy. You can then 'paste' into Microsoft paint. Could this be reverseable or does the image convert into a pixel image when it is sent?

No, it's not converted when it's sent. The pixel image is created on the other user's side. When the user receives a vector hand-written message, the Messenger client will call Windows Journal to render it to a bitmap image. It's Journal which will then "draw" the image according to the width, color, size and the other stuff mentioned in the message. The output is a bitmap image which is displayed in the conversation.

You can compare it to a 3D render. When a designer creates a 3D environement of a landscape, he chooses terrain, textures, lights, water effects and more. Then, he chooses a point to place the camera and then start the rendering process. As output, he gets a JPEG image of his landscape with all the effects he specified. However, he can't easily re-create the 3D environement based on that JPEG image, and for an automated script that task would be almost impossible!

For Ink's it's just the same: when you start drawing, it'll record your actions, send it to Windows Journal and create a preview in your working area. When you send it, your contact's Messenger client will have to send it too to get an image. This way, the sent information is quite small because a human won't make that big amount of strokes. But, if you want to do it reverse using a program, you'd have to cycle through every pixel, and draw a stroke on each of them. The result would be that the Ink image you're sending is actually bigger than if you'd send it the "normal" way.

I hope that cleared up a bit. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Matti: Jul 12 2007, 06:53 AM
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EaglesNestOne
post Jul 13 2007, 12:12 PM
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I see. Thanks for that info there Matti well explained laugh.gif .

So what if there were a way to scale it down a few sizes before rendering (like scale down about 1/2 more or less). Would it still look normal (viewable)?

<offtopic>
@matti
Thanks for quoting things about 3D images etc. I used to do things like that a while ago and it made things much clearer for me.
</offtopic>

This post has been edited by EaglesNestOne: Jul 13 2007, 12:13 PM


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EaglesNestOne
post Mar 6 2009, 07:42 AM
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*CLEAR!* *TZZZZZZZZZZ* Man, this is the biggest revive.

There IS infact a plugin for "aMSN" that does what I have described above. It is called SendDraw (http://www.amsn-project.net/plugins.php#22). I've tested the plugin and it works although I am unsure on it's reliability. I'm no programmer but the plugin looks relatively simple and consists of only one 2Kb script file. Weather it can be ported to Windows Live Messenger is beyond my knowledge but it would be sweet if it could.

EDIT: I just realized I didn't read your post properly Matti. Soz 'bout that biggrin.gif.

EaglesNestOne

This post has been edited by EaglesNestOne: Mar 6 2009, 07:56 AM


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